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In this Discussion
The landscape of frameworks in 2014
Mells
Guru
Hi everyone,
quick question ( @OZApps maybe?) :
What has been the evolution of 2D cross platform frameworks over the last year?
Are more and more people using it?
The last time I checked, people talked about :
At that time (but I might be biased by a reality distortion field), Corona was popular among indies.
Moai gained interest as a more powerful solution.
Cocos2d seemed to be used by devs who actually shipped something, but I never understood all the variations (2x, etc).
GameMaker seemed too simple at first but people said the latest versions were actually good and worth a look.
Construct... I don't know, it looked like GameMaker to me. I saw a few tutorials on GamedevTuts so I assumed it was a popular one.
Marmalade no idea never used, but seemed more oriented towards bigger companies.
Haxe, no idea I did not fit with their target.
Platino, too much fluff. No idea what it really is behind that wall of blablabla and their focus seems inconsistent. I only put them in the list because Titanium is quite big and I've met Jeff Haynie who was really nice.
Unity seems to invest a lot in promoting their 2D tools. That's something that changed the landscape, I guess.
quick question ( @OZApps maybe?) :
What has been the evolution of 2D cross platform frameworks over the last year?
Are more and more people using it?
The last time I checked, people talked about :
Games
- Marmalade
- Cocos2d
- Corona
- Moai
- Construct
- GameMaker
- Gideros (Unfortunately our beloved Gideros didn't appear much at that time)
- Haxe
- Platino (Not sure, I'm aware it exists but no one is talking about it)
At that time (but I might be biased by a reality distortion field), Corona was popular among indies.
Moai gained interest as a more powerful solution.
Cocos2d seemed to be used by devs who actually shipped something, but I never understood all the variations (2x, etc).
GameMaker seemed too simple at first but people said the latest versions were actually good and worth a look.
Construct... I don't know, it looked like GameMaker to me. I saw a few tutorials on GamedevTuts so I assumed it was a popular one.
Marmalade no idea never used, but seemed more oriented towards bigger companies.
Haxe, no idea I did not fit with their target.
Platino, too much fluff. No idea what it really is behind that wall of blablabla and their focus seems inconsistent. I only put them in the list because Titanium is quite big and I've met Jeff Haynie who was really nice.
Unity seems to invest a lot in promoting their 2D tools. That's something that changed the landscape, I guess.
Other
- Titanium
- Phonegap
- Sencha
So my questions :
- Has the landscape changed? (who disappeared, who appeared, who became popular and who did not)
- Are people actually using those tools more and more? Is the market dynamic or losing steam?
- Where do you see Gideros fit in that market? Apart from its features, can it win and grow in 2014?
- 4. Have you gained/lost interest for this market?
- 5. Who are the success stories in our community? Let's praise them!
twitter@TheWindApps Artful applications : The Wind Forest. #art #japan #apps
Comments
what i find interesting currently (besides Gideros) are
- OpenFL (haxe)
- LibGDX (java)
- Kivy (python)
- cocos-2d-x (c++, js, lua)
these all support many (mobile and desktop) platforms, are mostly free and/or open-source.
things i did not check recently but should be on such a list:
- marmalade. it also became free recently (?).
- unity of course.
(- phonegap if you want an app and not a game)
Fragmenter - animated loop machine and IKONOMIKON - the memory game
Author of Learn Lua for iOS Game Development from Apress ( http://www.apress.com/9781430246626 )
Cool Vizify Profile at https://www.vizify.com/oz-apps
https://www.madewithmarmalade.com/sites/default/files/Marmalade_Free_PressRelease.pdf
Likes: HubertRonald
[-] Liasoft
5.Once configuration is complete you will be prompted to read the README.txt and/or to launch the Marmalade Hub. Note that the Marmalade Hub may prompt you to switch to the Marmalade Hub SDK, if so then select Yes
6.The first time you launch the Marmalade Hub. You will have the choice to either start a 30 day trial or to activate your license.
http://docs.madewithmarmalade.com/display/MD/Installing+Marmalade
Did somebody already installed it?
[-] Liasoft
Fragmenter - animated loop machine and IKONOMIKON - the memory game
I tried with this link
https://www.madewithmarmalade.com/download
I'm still downloading it weighs over 1 Giga :-w
[-] Liasoft
I've personally started using Construct 2 for the Web/HTML5 versions of my games, as its the quickest/easiest game HTML5 maker out there. While I think Construct 2 is a brilliant piece of software with some amazing features, it still doesn't even come close to Gideros.
Gideros is the most intuitive tool I've ever used. If it did HTML5 than I definitely wouldn't use anything else
A couple f tools that I think are missing from your list are Phaser(HTML5) and Stencyl. Both very good and they have had steady progress.
Gideros is stable software, has the player and great support.
[Edit: also, plugins]
"Wow, that's cool. I want to learn that."
"Oooh, maybe I should switch to that one."
I though of calling it "Framework Fatigue": The state in which a game developer becomes so distracted with all the possible choices in game frameworks that he can't get any productive work done.
Anyway, waking up this morning I found that I'm focused back on Gideros again. Yay!
Likes: HubertRonald
Yesterday, I was trying with Marmalade, But I knew to learn it I going to take lot time so again...
"I'm focused back on Gideros again. Yay!"
[-] Liasoft
and sharing your love for Gideros ^^
Apart from our own biases, my original question hasn't been really answered :
has the landscape changed?
I'm not talking about personal preferences, but market evolution.
The market should have evolved, that's how it feels when you step away and come back. The issues that plagued the developers are still there, OpenGL has moved to OpenGL 3.0 while some frameworks use 1.0, some 2.0 and some 3.0
With the multitude of resolutions, the assets are now taking up a large portion of the app package with duplication, I had to recently create about 10 different sized icons for an app to be updated to the app store. Then other sizes for Android and so on.
Many OpenSource and other services have closed down, Apple has *sherlocked* many apps, which is basically the market scales trying to achieve equilibrium, they swing both ways before stablising.
One other trend that is interesting is that about 4 years ago, most frameworks started to offer subscription based access to their products, these were real cheap rates, then this kind of grew and increased to becoming really expensive. Then over the last year or so, these have all started to offer their wares for free with revenue streams for support and additional features.
Languages have gone from Java to C to C# to Objective-C to Lua to C/C++ to Objective-C to JavaScript, HTML and now it is gravitating towards a script like language Swift (the future of which is still unknown). There is talk about split screen apps on iOS and a 6" iPhone which goes to show that Apple are buckling under pressure. Almost on the lines on Mercedes with their A Class and BMW with their 1 series (despite the Mini Cooper).
Funnily Swift which seems to be what every other developer is riding on with twitter, vimeo, youTube, websites, etc is a big unknown variable. xCode 6 is ß and rightly so, the language is still under evolution, however if it is adopted, it will definitely be a big move for developers (forward for some, backwards for others). While it is a script like language, it's roots are still embedded with Cocoa. it is almost like (if I may use a comparison) the first version of John26's Desktop stub for Gideros. It aimed at working 100% with his game but then he was working on detaching the features.
Right now the situation is very volatile and it will be by the end of the year that things will start to clarify. Surface 3 is amazing (want to get my hands on one) similarly Samsung and HTC or Sony might come up with something while Apple will release the iWatch and iPhone around September, so it is around then that you will get to see how things will be as that will dictate a lot of other influences including prices and products.
Author of Learn Lua for iOS Game Development from Apress ( http://www.apress.com/9781430246626 )
Cool Vizify Profile at https://www.vizify.com/oz-apps
I think it's always good to see where you are stepping and you can see how the market is and where it is going, because I believe that you can not put your hands into the fire in the world of technology, because it changing so rapidly and with them business strategies of these businesses (for example now Marmalade is Free, maybe because Swift is coming soon and they want eliminate some competition of their way)
I say this because sometimes you think the silence in Gideros may be because things are not going well or maybe they are very busy for surprising us
It is logical that you worry in the medium and long term because your applications are being written in this SDK and move these applications to another SDK, it is something you really don't want make, and on second thought, you should be wondering code portability when you select your SDK. :-?
I like Gideros because when it dominates lets focus on the application and the features that this must have, especially if you're the one doing the design, art, code and test the application.
Thus by the foregoing, I chose Gideros, but as I said it is good to see from time to time in the market, for you to don't finish at the end crying for something you didn't see coming, It's important when you manage your resources well, spend some time to this aspect.
@OZApps great feedback, keep it up!
[-] Liasoft
> "It is logical that you worry in the medium and long term"
> "I like Gideros because when it dominates lets focus on the application and the features that this must have"
Hey @HubertRonald I appreciate the comment. This post had nothing to do with the silence around Gideros or why people are using Gideros though.
Not really a "why did you choose Gideros" kind of discussion, I'd like to keep it focused.
I'm well aware that the people on the forum are users and therefore have lots of reasons to reinforce their commitment to the product they use.
I appreciate the effort you put in your answer, but I must admit it might sound a little bit patronizing sometimes, for some (even though I know your intention are *totally* different, no worries about that. Maybe it's just me so that's not important
It's also hard for me to keep things objective because I like Gideros a lot (and quickly fall into "the reasons I like Gideros" myself
Thank you everyone for participating!
So, who are the success stories in the Gideros community?
[-] Liasoft
I understand that it is difficult to express in foreign languages, which for many on this forum is English. Do not let that be a spanner in the works. Plus many idioms may or may not have a meaning when translated (like the one just before this sentence) so that is learned over a period of time with using the language.
Author of Learn Lua for iOS Game Development from Apress ( http://www.apress.com/9781430246626 )
Cool Vizify Profile at https://www.vizify.com/oz-apps
Reading and writing here helps not only to communicate ideas and codes, in this process I am improving my English.
And well
"Nada"... you make me remember my homeland
Don't worry, No Problem
in this case your Spanish was precise
Cheers!
[-] Liasoft
I'm not a programmer but I remember in high school, whereas I was good at using "If...then....else......" I always made the silly mistake "I goto the beach" (I blame my 6128+).
Likes: MoKaLux