Some Horror Stories

zoolax · September 2013

I usually read success stories ,but I read these horror stories recently about some app developers who are broke now,
I know it sounds depressing ,but I found it useful,it is making me more alert,and aware about not making certain mistakes.
Sometime I feel I need some horror stories to make me think better about marketing,and keeping me alert.
It is like a really cold shower. 8-X
Links:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/business/as-boom-lures-app-creators-tough-part-is-making-a-living.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/going-broke-with-success-how-an-app-with-200000-downloads-led-to-devel

I hope they come useful.

OZApps · September 2013

@zoolax, one common theme that keeps resurfacing is that

1. It IS hard making a living off the App store unless

i. You have multiple games to rake in the revenues
ii. You have silly games (that have an appeal to .... , urhm, people with money to spend)
iii. You have a day job that pays your bills
iv. You place ADs in your games left right and centre
v. You release your games for all platforms, iOS, Android, etc
vi. You have all sorts of integration, facebook, twitter, sinio, etc More code to connect to all this than the game/app.

OR

have a really wonderful product that Apple and the community decides to pick up and pay for, this would still get you somewhere, not earn a living.

The other thing/s that you might have to do is/are
i. Fake 5* reviews on your app, the .... (uhrm, people with just money to spend) look at reviews seriously not even considering that the reviews are mainly by the developer and his/her close friends, if there is a single 1 or 2 star review, the app is a NO-NO for them. You might see that based on this, a lot of competing developers visit the apps site and leave a 1 or 2 star review with simple words like, "I don't like game" but then the .... (people with just money to spend) take that as written in stone.

ii. Cheat, get your friends and followers to speak about your games/apps as if they were your customers actually using and benefiting/enjoying these.

iii. It also helps to get a push from either the Framework developers and/or review sites. I keep getting press releases from agents that send out press releases and requests for app reviews. Most of the apps that are paid apps, some do not send promo codes so how is one to review these, base it off their press release? That is not a review.

In short, it is difficult even with freelancing and fulltime, there are outsourcing options (really cheap, both in price and quality) these spoil the market, the first timer that has a small budget gets burned where as the one with the large budgets retreats into a shell. This then takes away a market share of potential options. Clients do not want to pay a lot, cross platform apps are not easy as many frameworks lack several features over the other to consider just one exclusively.

I am sure the story is the same everywhere, the countries with a lower cost of living could still benefit from this, however people in the western world would soon find it impossible to compete and survive. Here, the average cost for a haircut is $20, if I were in Sydney, it could have been $10. However even $10 in a country like India is Rs. 600, that I would pay to take an air-con cab from the Airport home (45 minutes to an hour drive) That would be enough to recharge the phone to talk for 2-3 months, or have an unlimited plan for the month.

Maybe others can share their views on this, I am not sure how many are in the Full Time category, but I feel that a majority would be in the hobby category, have a full time job and dabble with making apps or just updating their skills. From the full timers, what are their geographical locations.

Mells · September 2013

- I know @ar2rsawseen is going to comment on the length of this post -

@zoolax
I don't think that those numbers paint a picture that is much different than any other industry.
Some people win, some don't. That's the game and I guess it's fine like that.

@OZApps
First, I appreciate that you took the time to compile all those ideas. That's helpful on the forums and I wish we could have more posts like these.

Now, I assume that those are statements that you compiled, and not necessarily your own points of view.

ii. You have silly games (that have an appeal to .... , urhm, people with money to spend)

The person doing that statement (let's call her Miss

would have a high opinion of herself knowing what is good and what is silly, and stating that people who have a different perspective than her are "....".

Every successful game/product appeals to a user by addressing some of his needs/wants/fears. It might not be what fits with Miss B's prism of values, but it does for other people.

It could be simply that Miss B is just frustrated about her own unsuccessful attempts (trying to find a rational explanation -> "Users are ...") while it might be more constructive to look at her own actions and optimize/iterate/innovate.
But let's assume that it is not the case.

The first mistake Miss B is doing is thinking that she is smarter than millions of other people. In rare cases it could be true, but most of the time it is simply not.

The second one is not understanding that those might not be her target users - and she might not be loosing potential customers, *stolen* by those silly games.

The third one is by not acknowledging the fact that making millions of people happy to pay for a product is not an easy task.

Miss B might think that what she values in the product she is developing should be understood by other people. But what she can't see (because she is deeply passionate about what she is doing and we can't blame her for that) is that she is building products to make herself happy, and not trying to understand :

what would make **thousands/millions** of people happy
how she could reach that goal in an ethical way that also (and not exclusively) makes herself happier

This research means a lot of work, and not everyone is ready to put the efforts in it.

have a really wonderful product that Apple and the community decides to pick up and pay for

That is wishful thinking. The other way is to do the hard work of building a community from scratch, getting test users on board as soon as possible, listen to their feedback, iterate, share behind the scenes with them.
A dev could also find the pattern behind everything that Apple has featured in the past, seek the angle from which her app could be marketed so it addresses both her target user's needs/wants/fears but also what Apple wants to feature (to make its own products look and sell better).

ii. Cheat, get your friends and followers to speak about your games/apps as if they were your customers actually using and benefiting/enjoying these.

OR a dev could iterate during her testing phase until her beta users really love the game and feel engaged because she has shared a lot with them and been responsive with their requests. This could help so they feel they are part of something.
Then, when the game is out, she could ask them if they could please :

download the game and buy IF they like it (but they do, because her game is the latest iteration that made the core of her audience happy)
and if they feel inclined, to leave an honest review (and only an honest review) that reflects their experience with the game. Honest reviews are gold so she knows what she is doing right, and what she can improve. She has *no* interest in getting fake reviews. She is in the business for the long term and wants to build relationships with her customers that last
she could ask them to share a thought about the game on social medias (blog posts, twitter, fb, pinterest, etc...) and provide them with a link to a page containing beautiful h-res screenshots so their own blog/tweets etc look beautiful to the eyes of their own readers

If she can plan her pre-launch, soft launch and hard launch, then she gets a lot of users (who might be her friends, her family, people she has met on dev forums, and others and having close people to review is perfectly fine) who will speak nicely about her game.

I don't call it *cheating*. But I can see why someone not willing to do the effort might justify it that way.

these spoil the market

I certainly don't think it does?
What's wrong with a market being composed of both very good and very bad products (and others in the middle)?
Also, what's wrong with outsourcing if you find people that can deliver?
I have done in the recent past and been more than pleased with the results. It's not an easy task to handle but good things can happen.
I see it as a limiting belief more than a truth.

"I don't like game" but then the .... (people with just money to spend) take that as written in stone.

I don't see why a dev should care so much about that kind of users that she labels as "..." more than the one who compose her target audience?

If they are that bad to get labeled that way, then a dev wouldn't want them as users.
That would be logical not to waste time looking at them at all -they wouldn't buy her apps anyway, they are not the target- and actually do the hard work of finding her early adopters, talk to them, etc...

Note
While I am still myself struggling to find enough time to develop and finish my own apps, I work with several companies on their content and marketing strategies (not only in the app business).
I do think that marketing and product dev are not two different entities and that both departments need each other.

Those who think that marketing can save a bad product are wrong (The "Big companies have millions to launch bad products" myth).
Those who think that marketing is evil are wrong (It's wrong if you are selling benefits that your product can not provide).
Those who think that a good product will find its audience organically are (in most cases) wrong. Well, unless they have the funds and time to wait.

My thoughts
If you want to **sell** an app, talk to people FIRST before writing any line of code.
See what they like, how they use their smartphone, when is the time they enjoy playing a game, how long the sessions are, what kind of games they are playing daily, what would they like to be improved about game X, look at 3 stars reviews on the app stores ("I like that app but I wish feature Y was available"), how much have they invested in their preferred game, what's the reason why they spent +$10 for this game while they don't want to buy 0.99cts on the side? etc..

TALK TO PEOPLE.
This advice is the best someone gave me a few years ago. If you want to run a business, don't build your own toys. Talk to people. Have a mindset of service and create value for the others.
If you build your own thing, only you will be willing to pay for it. It's not bad, but it might be different than what you had in mind first.
Talk to people, you will save tons of money.

If you want to **build** an app, then don't do any of this and just have fun.
Enjoy this freedom and see how well it can help your personal development.
Just understand that this is rarely compatible with "running a business", unless you are willing to put the efforts to find the perfect balance.

zoolax · September 2013

The only reason I posted this to get a positive from negative experience.
It might sounds strange,but It motivates me even more when I see the bad side.

ar2rsawseen · September 2013

@Mells X_X
Even without reading it I could agree with you.
But I read it.
And I still agree.
Although from app developer stand of point, naturally I feel more like @OZApps expressed.

tkhnoman · September 2013

@zoolax : Yo, masochist!

**Run away**

Mells · September 2013

@ar2rsawseen
Please note that mostly I don't disagree with @OZApps (

) and I don't think those all reflect his opinions only but more a condensed list of what's been observed + opinions mixed.

@zoolax
Wow sorry I got carried away. Btw the graphics on your site are impressive and I'm looking forward to seeing what you will release.

zoolax · September 2013

@zoolax : Yo, masochist!

**Run away**

ArtLeeApps · September 2013

@Mells =D> i can tell this is your subject matter, well put.

Myself, i enjoy learning/building/creating stuff, i would like to live in that world fulltime, but for now its like many, a dream. In the past ive lead teams of analyst/programmer in multiple business system projects. But today i work as a Analyst Developer, cos i like hands on making things work.

My first humble Gideros app is currently with my testing team (my spouse and I), she was also the one that wrote me an email while i was at work asking me "would it be possible to make a game that.... " and from there it started. so in effect that was "my" market need

oneday, im sure most of us will build something that people flock to, then move on to the next craze.

8->

ar2rsawseen · September 2013

But one thing I can tell for sure, when I see there is a post by @Mells, it subconsciously makes me want to go and make a tea before I open and read it

OZApps · September 2013

I think we have a new word to add to the Gideros Forum,

Melled |Mell-ed|
verb. A long post well formatted and documented

@Mells, one thing is for sure, you need to jump into the water to feel it, release your app soon and I am sure you will have a slightly different point of view like many others have.

phongtt · September 2013

I think we have a new word to add to the Gideros Forum,

Melled |Mell-ed|
verb. A long post well formatted and documented

voted!

)

john26 · September 2013

I must say I tend to agree with @OZApps on this debate. I'm afraid his cynisism is rather justified. The app stores are a bit like a gold rush where the only people really making money are the people selling fake maps! When you publish a game you'll soon get sent emails by various publicity companies wanting to review or promote your app -- and charging money for it. These people are really leaching off false dreams.

You can make it big, but the chances are similar to writing the next blockbuster novel. For every J K Rowling there are a million who only sell a hundred books (including J K Rowling herself when she recently published a book under a pseudonym and no one bought it).

I think the process of writing an app is similar to writing a novel. You work on your own for a year with no feedback and no way to tell if anyone will like what you've done. Writing a game or a novel is also a *huge* amount of work! Then you release the book -- and hope...

And I slightly take issue with the idea you can do market research, find out what people want etc. To some extent its true but writing a game is a creative, artistic endeavour (like writing a novel). You can't necessarily write "what will sell". You have the write the game you want to play and hope for the best. Of course you should do promotion work, I agree with that.

zoolax · September 2013

Personally I think ,
Marketing is a huge deal.
Which can help a lot if a developer work on it.
By marketing I mean the right way,and the hard way.
yourself going about sending and posting your product on selected forums sites,it can be a full time job.and other stuff that comes to mind.And do a real quality post.
I know there are people out there waiting to grab your money,by promising sending out 500 emails to review site,and such.
But I personally think as a developer you have to do the hard work ,or find somebody true who can do it for you.
It is like any other product,production,advertising,improvement.
Programmers and artists love to create ,but when it comes to marketing,it can feel very boring,that is maybe why many developers might take the easy way out by doing some basic marketing,and give up after no response.
There are people out there who make money,so it has to be doable.
But I still think negative stories can be a positive push,if you learn not to repeat the same mistakes.
Gold rush is over because there was no gold left to get dug out.
But in app business you have to make the gold then grab people to your store.
Cheers

Mells · September 2013

- @ar2rsawseen tea time -

@OZApps

@Mells, one thing is for sure, you need to jump into the water to feel it, release your app soon and I am sure you will have a slightly different point of view like many others have.

I said I didn't release my own apps (side projects and where I enjoy total freedom = big risks), not that I have never been part of an indie team that has put games in an app store, not that I have never contributed to launch commercial games (failed fast, learned a lot, and a few successes). It's just that I don't talk about it.
My point of view tends to be rational rather than emotional so I don't think it would be different if I hadn't jumped into the water.

I understand the emotion when I read posts on the forums, I feel it, but I don't think it's a reason to be biased about what the reality of the market is.

@john26

I think the process of writing an app is similar to writing a novel. You work on your own for a year with no feedback and no way to tell if anyone will like what you've done. Writing a game or a novel is also a *huge* amount of work! Then you release the book -- and hope...

I have no pb with that process : it's just that everyone should know that we have options.
1. Add value to people first -and try to please ourselves at the same time- to limit possibilities of failure
2. Add value to our own lives by doing what we love first -and acknowledge right from the beginning the fact that we make a choice to limit our possibilities of success by deciding to put our own development first.

There is not a better choice than the other. But I say "we have a choice". If you make one choice or another, outputs are predictable to a certain extend (1. less risks financially, less creative freedom | 2. more creative freedom, more risks financially).

And I slightly take issue with the idea you can do market research, find out what people want etc. To some extent its true but writing a game is a creative, artistic endeavour (like writing a novel). You can't necessarily write "what will sell". You have the write the game you want to play and hope for the best.

This is what I mean. And this is totally fine that your idea is different. I'm not saying this is wrong.

While I would love to subscribe to the idea that "artists should be paid because they put a lot of efforts into what they do", the simple truth is the following :
-> If you were a soccer fan, would you ask me to pay for your beers at the bar while you are enjoying your time? No.
Then what's different about "doing what I love, crossing fingers and expecting people to find value in it and finance my own enjoyments"?

My point is :
if you do what *you* love then it's a great thing. For your personal development. For your own growth. It's necessary. But you are seriously limiting your opportunities to make it a success. Just don't be surprised if no one likes it, and to an extend it's not fair to attribute other people's success to "luck", "big budget", "evil marketing".
It's a matter of choice.

We are all trying to find the perfect formula that will allow us to keep on being creative, while being able to pay the bills. I'm not on "the other side"

Some people are sharing the way they try to find the perfect balance :
Why indie mobile game development is no longer a worthwhile commercial prospect

Mells · September 2013

The good thing with me is that after a few posts like that, you don't hear about me for a few weeks. I can hear people clapping hands. [-O< =D> :-h

ArtLeeApps · September 2013

I like this line:

if you do what *you* love then it's a great thing.

isnt that why, some of us are day time programmers, and night time game makers ?

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