Android 2.3 and OpenSL ES

atilim · October 2012

Hi all,

Currently, we're using a modified version of OpenAL Soft in Android and it provides _almost_ low latency audio playing.

And for some time, I want to move OpenSL ES for lower latency audio, for smaller binary size, for easy debugging and to get rid of Java dependency. But it requires Android 2.3. Currently the distribution of 2.2 is about ~12.9% and decreases steadily [1]. For example, in 04/2012 it was about ~%23. It may be even lower for users who usually play games on their Android devices.

My questions are:
1. Do you have Android 2.2 dependency?
2. Is it ok for you if you lose ~12.9% of market?

Thank you

[1] http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

Well, I don't know what is the case between Android 2.2 and 2.3, but for example I have a bunch of guys at the office with HTC Desire which (as they told me) can't be upgraded to Android 2.3 (HTC does not provide upgrade and they are stuck with 2.2), while there is an Android 2.3 installed on our test device - LG Optimus P500 (which I think is less capable device than HTC desire).

So, although it is not a show stopper, I probably would not like to see Android 2.2 support go away, not for now.

But that's just my vote

phongtt · October 2012

How about supporting both? And waiting for a while before dropping 2.2?

Scouser · October 2012

I would be inclined to say that once Android 2.2 drops below 10% of market it should be OK to drop it. This should be before the end of the year but I still have some friends who have devices running 2.2. I would be inclined to keep support for ARMv6 for a while longer though as I still use one (Android V2.3.5).

@ar2rsawseen: If you want to upgrade the HTC Desires, HTC does have upgrade firmwares but they are not automatic OTA updates so have to be done manually. See here.

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

Thanks @Scouser I will resend this info to colleagues

@phongtt I don't think it would be possible, even if it is, I doubt it would pay off.
I guess this question is basically either on or other

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

BTW if this is true, will it would be possible to provide an option to support android 2.2 if you really want to, by adding additional SharedObject?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6671973/opensl-on-android-2-1

phongtt · October 2012

@ar2rsawseen: 2 library files or 1 with some kind of flags/linking flags, not possible?

Scouser · October 2012

@ar2rsawseen: I just looked more closely at the link for the HTC Developer site and it's changed since the post was made but here is the correct file on the HTC site required to do the update.

atilim · October 2012

@phongtt @ar2rsawseen I know it's possible but most probably it won't be easy.

It seems there are two options:
1. Try to support both.
2. Wait some more (maybe end of this year?) and then drop Android 2.2 support.

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

@Scouser unfortunately that link redirects to main website

BTW based on link you've given @atilim

OpenGL (v1.1 only) distribution is only 9.2%, so what does it depends on? Not android version nor armv6 processor?

Scouser · October 2012

@ar2rswaseen: Sorry, I just copied link address, I should have tried it first. Ok The file can be found by going to this page and then filter by Device>Desire & Android Version>v2.3 then click find files and you will be presented with the correct file to download (there will be only one).

Javi · October 2012

I'd wait.
@atilim: It seems there is way to use OpenSL with 2.2, maybe it could be a good idea meanwhile...
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6671973/opensl-on-android-2-1

[edit: Oops! I've seen that @ar2rsawseen has already posted this link]

atilim · October 2012

@ar2rsawseen OpenGL ES 2.0 support comes with Android 2.2. I think it depends on both hardware and Android 2.2+.

atilim · October 2012

@Javi I'll give a try.

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

@atilim sorry for going off topic, but if Android 2.1 support is already dropped of and Android 2.2 supports version OpenGL ES 2.0, then why Gideros needs a support for version 1.1?
What is the line between them and wouldn't 2.0 version make your life easier?

And about this topic, how hard would it be to support both options? How much time would it cost you or what features would it cost us (that you could have implemented in that time?)

atilim · October 2012

OpenGL ES 2.0 is not backward compatible with OpenGL ES 1.1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL_ES#OpenGL_ES_2.0 Therefore, drawing codes need to be reimplemented. On the other hand, it's easy to port these functions from 1.1 to 2.0.

But moving to OpenGL ES 2.0 means dropping support for iPod Touch 2nd gen and iPhone 3G.

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

I don't know much about Apple community, but judging by the rush they have for buying newest Iphone model, I think there should be no problem of dropping support for 3g and 2gen.

And that dropping Android 2.2 is a greater problem than that. But I might be mistaken, are there any statistics on this?

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

Ok I might have been mistaken:
http://www.learn-cocos2d.com/2012/03/ios-sales-statistics-q1-2012-split-by-model-opengl-es-2-0-support/

about 20% has OpenGL ES 1.1, but that was the first quarter, before new Iphone/Ipod release. These numbers could have changed drastically

That was again offtopic, sorry for that, but if we are discussing these ideas of dropping support for different devices, than I think we could discuss all of them.

Edited:
Heres the latest result from Q3
now it's about 15%
http://www.learn-cocos2d.com/2012/08/apple-device-sales-statistics-q3-2012-including-macs/

atilim · October 2012

Interesting because I was thinking exactly same as you. On the same blog there is more up to date statistics: http://www.learn-cocos2d.com/2012/08/apple-device-sales-statistics-q3-2012-including-macs

atilim · October 2012

btw, games on Google Play usually target 2.2+. There are only a few games (e.g. Granny Smith) that target 2.3+.

atilim · October 2012

Also I've looked at the latest 50 reviews (where you can see the device) of Rovio's latest game at Google Play. Here are the results:

2.3   HTC Sensation 4G
2.3.4 Xperia Neo V
2.3   Samsung Galaxy W
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
2.3   Samsung Galaxy W
2.3.6 Samsung Galaxy S
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
2.3   SEMC Xperia Arc
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
2.3.3 HTC Desire S
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
2.3   Samsung Galaxy W
2.3   Samsung Galaxy W
2.3   SEMC Xperia S
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
2.3.6 Samsung Galaxy S
4.0.4 SEMC Xperia Arc S
2.3   HTC Sensation 4G
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
4.0   SEMC Xperia Mini Pro
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
2.3   Samsung Galaxy W
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
2.3.3 SEMC Xperia X10 (initially 2.1 upgraded to 2.3.3 in end of July)
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
2.3.4 SEMC Xperia Neo V
2.3   Samsung Galaxy W
2.3   Samsung Galaxy W
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
2.2   HTC Incredible S  *******
2.3   Galaxy S Plus
2.3.4 SEMC Xperia Neo V
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
4.0.4 SEMC Xperia Arc S
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
3.2   Sony Tablet S
2.3.4 LG Optimus Black
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
2.3.2 HTC Shooter
2.3.4 SEMC Xperia Neo V
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
2.3   Samsung Galaxy S2
2.2   HTC Desire HD  *******
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy S3
4.0.4 Samsung Galaxy Note

2 out of 50 are Android 2.2 and rest is Android 2.3+. But afaik that game requires OpenGL ES 2.0. Most probably this also effected the results.

Javi · October 2012

In fact there are a lot of 2.0.1 and 2.1 on Google Play.
It's very important to support as many devices as possible, one of the keys of Angry Birds is they target Android 1.6, so "everybody" can play it.

Working with a 3D engine then I would understand the benefits of using fragment and vertex shaders.
Yes, you can do nice 2D effects with shaders but working only on 2D I can't see a good reason to dropping support for several iOS and Android devices just for that.
Only my opinion.

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

@atilim That was a point towards dropping Android 2.2 or switching to OpenGL ES 2.0?

@Javi I'd like to see AngryBirds running on Android 1.6 if they are slow as hell on my Android 2.3 LG P500

Well nobody's dropping anything yet, but OpenGL ES 2.0 will offer more than shaders, as better anti-alizing, render to texture, probably better performance and some other features I am not aware yet.

I'm not fond of dropping support for devices myself and am concerned about it, but before making this decisions I want to know all options inside out, all limitations and features each option could give

atilim · October 2012

I see. But if we're talking about pre 2.2, now their distribution is really low according to this page: http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

When Angry Bird was first released, most probably the distribution of 1.6 was really high. But I think this is not the case today and if you look at latest games on Google Play, they mostly target 2.2+.

Working with a 3D engine then I would understand the benefits of using fragment and vertex shaders.
Yes, you can do nice 2D effects with shaders but working only on 2D I can't see a good reason to dropping support for several iOS and Android devices just for that.

Yes, I agree. But when the distribution of OpenGL ES 1.1 devices drops below a threshold (I don't know what it is), it's safe to stop supporting these devices and move on with new technology.

atilim · October 2012

@atilim That was a point towards dropping Android 2.2 or switching to OpenGL ES 2.0?

both

Nascode · October 2012

Hello,
From our dev side in Indonesia, lowest ios device we must support is iPhone 3gs and iPad 1 (both are armv7 and opengl es2 capable), since iphone 3gs is still being sold until now in here.

And in Indonesia, cheap Android device is quite popular, that means we must support armv6 devices. Fortunately, while being armv6 devices, almost all of the gpus of cheap android support opengl es2. Samsung have biggest share of android here in Indonesia, and their line of android devices offering right now are all armv7 cmiiw

Imo my suggestion is to switch to opengl es 2 while maintaining android 2.2 support and armv6 for android. However dropping armv6 for ios should be safe now.

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

)

Dev suggests to drop Android 2.2 support, but community decides to drop support for older IOS devices.
Only in GiderosMobile forums - We Know Drama!!

atilim · October 2012

hahahahaha

) but you're the one who distracts the discussion first.

ar2rsawseen · October 2012

Well it's not my fault I'm a trend starter

atilim · October 2012

)

And thank you all for the suggestions. I may rise this discussion again after a couple months later

Nascode · October 2012

Oh no i was distracted by @ar2rsawseen

)

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Top Posters

Android 2.3 and OpenSL ES

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

In this Discussion

Top Posters

Android 2.3 and OpenSL ES

Comments