Android Froyo vs OpenSL ES...

SinisterSoft · August 2016

We have reach a point that we have a choice to make.

Retain compatibility with Android Froyo OR go for lower latency Audio with OpenSL ES (introduced just after Froyo).

Lower latency audio means sounds would play faster with less delay before the user can hear them.

Froyo is on 0.1% (or less) of devices. I tried moving from min api 8 to min api 9 and lost about 80 devices out of tens of thousands on google play dev. Most Froyo devices are around 6 years old.

What does everyone think ?

SinisterSoft · August 2016

My personal vote would be for OpenSL ES.

keszegh · August 2016

isn't it possible to make legacy functions compatible with froyo for a while
like all functions with Legacy added to its name?
if not, all in all probably it's not a big deal nowadays to loose froyo, it has 0.1% market share and probably those people anyway do not spend too much time playing/buying apps.

totebo · August 2016

Anything that improves the latency in audio playback gets my vote. I'm not at all concerned if older devices are lost.

SinisterSoft · August 2016

@keszegh It's a matter of complicating the source code - dynamically loading libs and making the object size bigger just a very small range of devices. It's kinda like someone supporting Windows 95/98 nowadays as devices are updated more quickly on mobile.

MobAmuse · August 2016

I also vote for time to move to OpenSL ES - the sound stuff is the biggest current area of problem for Gideros/Android apps. I gave up with it years back but would like to revisit it if this gets upgraded

keszegh · August 2016

i vote for OpenSL ES then.

MobAmuse · August 2016

My first ever test FREE app written in Gideros years ago... still hobbled by the sound latency on droid... hence why I gave up with that at least.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mobileamusements.DrumHead

MobAmuse · August 2016

Currently attracts once star reviews like this because of the sound latency problem... 'It is not good It is not good. Don't install it. Sound is played when you release the pad (drum head), not when you touch. It is just for children to have fun, not for serious drummers.'

hgy29 · August 2016

I think thats settled then, lets drop Froyo. By the way Google Play Services also require Gingerbread at least.

MobAmuse · August 2016

Hoorah! Yay! MEGA!

antix · August 2016

I also think switching is a good idea. I had a quick look about the internet and it seems that only 0.1% of devices are running Froyo now as well (https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html)

SinisterSoft · August 2016

There may be some good news, it looks like the latest openal source code (we use an earlier version) may redirect calls to opensl es on android >= api9 and still use the old method if on Froyo (v8).

Either I or someone else will look into this a little more, if it works then we get the best of both worlds.

simwhi · August 2016

We have already removed support for older devices for our games. Older de3vices do not work very well with our games.

hgvyas123 · August 2016

I personally think it would be fine to drop froyo even dropping support < icecream sandwich would be ok

NatWobble · August 2016

I'd be surprised if the 0.1% even work given the rate I rip through android devices. They don't really last.

I'd really like to get away from wavs, which are too big. I'm also doubtful about using mp3s because of copyright issues. It would be great to use the ogg format on Android.

Is there anything similar for iOS? Construct 2 uses m4a files, which dont have any royalty issues.

SinisterSoft · August 2016

I had a look at the openal 1.7.2 source code and it does look like it now supports Android using OpenSl ES as the backend. It looks like a complicated 'update' though - so I think it's best if someone who knows the gideros source code a bit better should look at it.

MobAmuse · August 2016

DrumHead Pro FREE v2.0 finally with NO sound latency/lag/delay updated NOW on Google Play!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mobileamusements.DrumHead

MikeHart · August 2016

Great looking app.

antix · August 2016

Upgrade to latest OpenAL sound library for better sound latency

Could we get some clarification on just what this new system brings to the table? So we know from the release notes that it reduces latency (yay), but..

Currently mp3 files don't repeat on ~~some~~ most devices without having to use messy event handlers to manually loop them. Does this update resolve this or is this still an issue?

SinisterSoft · August 2016

mp3 files are not played through this, they are played through the media player. This is for pcm sounds like wav files or the soundtracker (mod) files.

It may be that the bug for mp3s isn't actually within Gideros, but is actually an Android fault.

If it is Gideros then a guess would be that an event is being missed or that the position (once the music has passed the end) is beyond or reset to before the beginning of the sound and so it somehow is missed?

If you have a mp3 that can fail to repeat reliably on all devices then please link to a dropbox copy of it and I'll check on my system and see if I can fix it?

antix · August 2016

@SinisterSoft thanks. So the OpenAL is for PCM and SoundTracker mods? What mods can this play? Maybe it's easier to just forget mp3 and use mods instead. Are these the kinds of mod like we used to use back in Amiga days? or are they different?

Okay I don't the MP3 files themselves aren't at fault. I have many that play fine on my Pixel-C, fine on my Nexus7 (R.I.P) but do not loop on my Nexus 4. So if it;s not a Gideros issue..

Maybe it's a hardware issue because both the Nexus models were running the exact same version of Android and only the Nexus4 failed to loop correctly.

SinisterSoft · August 2016

Yes, they are mods from the Amiga days - and improved formats that were made later.

It's basically this library:
http://xmp.sourceforge.net/

Version 4.3

If you look in the list of 'supported formats' on that webpage then you will see the files it will play. It also can do more as there is a mixer api so you have a spare set of 64 'voices'. We haven't added any commands to access these yet though.

It really needs updating to 4.4 then maybe the extra sound commands being added to Gideros.

antix · August 2016

Awesome! I might install the new release soon then.

totebo · August 2016

Guys. .mod? Now that's interesting! Would this work cross-platform, or only on Android?

SinisterSoft · August 2016

cross platform - it's been in for ages.

totebo · August 2016

Amazing. Now I need a game that needs very long music tracks

SinisterSoft · August 2016

What would be great is if something like Sonic Pi could run in a different thread (so it would not use game CPU time) - having it load up music from files or Lua strings, tables would be really great - you could make a game that makes music dynamically as it plays!

Just a dream, but you never know...

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