Corona Cloud will be closed

ar2rsawseen · June 2013

Just received and email, stating that Corona Cloud will be closed in 60 days, and that they are focusing more on Corona SDK rather than Cloud now.
Shocking. Any confirmations?

moopf · June 2013

Not really surprised. From everything I've read it was never ready for prime time at any point. What it does show is that you need to be really careful about what services like this you use as if companies drop them, or cease to trade, and your app relies upon them you could be in a bit of a pickle.

Having said that it's my understanding that Corona Cloud was based on AWS so it probably won't be too difficult to alter things in apps that are already live. As it wasn't really very stable anyway I'd be surprised if many live apps were using it.

It's a great example of jumping on a bandwagon and not really thinking it through properly though - doesn't paint a great picture of what's going on internally at Corona.

pykaso · June 2013

Same email

OZApps · June 2013

Is the Honeymoon over? I did not get that email...

phongtt · June 2013

I also got that mail today.

gorkem · June 2013

Nothing surprising like @moopf says. I've been raising lots of comments in my mind already about the feasibility of the platform, together with the potential issues of GameMinion & Corona's marriage after seeing "someone" coming to Gideros forums and disinforming people with fake usernames, but forgetting to hide their IPs (http://giderosmobile.com/forum/discussion/comment/19103) .. Same happened years ago with another "founder" (http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/29089/anscas-corona-sdk-is-promoted-by-idiots).. Not rewarding, especially in a world where honesty should be the best policy.

And to mention the Twitter posts about someone asking whether Corona Cloud is going away, someone from Corona replying with "no, not - never", then Corona Cloud disappearing only two weeks after. Whom will you believe when you want to invest your time and money?

davidrangel · June 2013

Hi everyone. This is David, COO at Corona Labs. Just want to throw in a couple of comments to clear the air here.

gorkem - the two people you refer to in the post are no longer with the company. I'll leave it at that.

The current team, including Walter who is the Founder and wrote v1 of Corona, absolutely believes in honesty and we fully act in that way. If you have something that shows otherwise, please let me know.

As for the situation with Corona Cloud, it is indeed unfortunate. We gave it a shot and thought hard about it, but decided this was the best way to go to make sure we keep on providing the best 2D mobile platform we can for our customers. We have many customers that prove that everyday.

Having said that, I completely respect Gideros as a tool as well and have heard good things. Good luck to you.

deniz · June 2013

Hi David,

Nice to meet you. I am Deniz, CEO of Gideros. Thanks for clearing the air.

I hope everything goes better for you in the future.
Wish you very best.

Good luck.

OZApps · June 2013

@david,
it is nice to hear officially from the source (Walter or you) than denials from some community members or employees that attempt to challenge the intelligence of the developers.

However the one thing that is utterly disappointing is that CoronaLabs suspends accounts for just about any reason, like on the Corona Cloud forum thread (http://forums.coronalabs.com/topic/35784-corona-cloud-is-offline/)

davidrangel · June 2013

C'mon @OzApps

Saying we are "suspending accounts for just about any reason" is disingenuous and you know it. You've seen the conversations that go on in our forums about almost any topic and we never censor. I could easily point you to several that openly (and aggressively!) question my management ability

But given a handful of people that are recently out to *only* troll, we have decided to hide egregious cases. That's all. In the thread you point to, people were already asking if Cloud was down. Nothing new was hidden - just a person or two that sign up as new users with a new name, post from services that hide their IP and have absolutely nothing new to add. Shocking!

OZApps · June 2013

@david, It is not disingenuous as I am talking from experience not heresay or hype and you know that too, considered a Jedi with one of the largest posts, the Corona Ambassador Manager, etc ... I have had to discuss with you on why my account had been suspended and 'your take' on it was disingenous and based on a perception. I can forward those conversations and a snapshot of that forum thread. So name calling would not help, as I did have quite an insight into things until that moment of time. On the corona forums I never hid my name to make a comment, but there were that did and still exist.
The clown that hid behind the fake username is still around on your forums and is perhaps one of your 3rd parties, you have not outlawed him or anything despite being that you could determine the *true* identity via IP address, etc that you mentioned.

I can discuss this with you via PM/eMail than in the open forum if you wish, but if you say that it is disingenuous and I know it, you are mistaken there.

I understand that management is not an easy task. You are trying your best and I guess are pretty much getting to grips with it. Your pre-decessor started this trend of suspending accounts and accidentally deleting threads, but it is unfortunate to see it still being carried forward rather than learning to deal with it. The funny thing is that on these threads, @Atilim and @Gorkem have been criticised harshly but I have not seen those guys being banned or deleting threads, they might have closed threads to avoid it going tangential or out of hand in directions other than the discussion.

Because the one thing that @GiderosMobile have learned is that the people that talk, provide feedback are the ones that really care, otherwise they would not have wasted their time, Gideros has learned that and adopting the feedback, I can only suggest that you can take a page from their book on this.

If I could also provide another piece of feedback to you while we are on the topic, I found an interesting thing that happened when you had a tinted image in a widget using a mask, so I asked a question on the forum. I got an email from alex stating that I need to raise a ticket on this topic. On doing so, I get an email that subscribers will get priority, then I get an email that this is an engine limitation and will be fixed in Graphics 2.0 thanks for the bug report. My point, Nothing that I was not aware of, I thought that the bug report was you to be able to know what to fix, not tell me what I already know and have a work around for.

So, my major concern is despite corona being free(as in whatever your analogy) what is the stability of having that free, what if the account is suspended by CoronaLabs on a whim, or a mistaken IP or inciting by some outlawed clowns? The binaries, applications are tagged with a ID of the person in the final 'config.lua', what if by some mechanism that app is stopped or impaired. The point is can there be trust with autocratic or draconian actions?

Edit: Oh, I forgot the smiley faces

OZApps · June 2013

@david, @Atilim and the community, I do not have any particular affinities in terms of paid employment with either of the frameworks, so I am not biased towards any be it Gideros or Corona or even Moai, Marmalade and so on. However, as a developer as i did mention in my earlier post that I pitch to my next client based on what features are available and the expectations of the client, so the next app could be made in Objective-C for all you know if the client wants 3D transformations, blurs, etc.

Since I was closely related with Corona since 2009 and was also the Ambassador Manager, or if you may call it the Developer Evangelist, I still felt that my bias should be from a developer's perspective not the companies (I was not on an employment contract) The reason is simple, an organisation looks at the client as a CashCow or a source of money (nothing wrong with that) but they also need that inner voice of reason that keeps them in check.

My book on Learn Lua started off with being a cookbook for CoronaSDK in March 2011 and finally culminated into a generic Lua Framework book in 2012, with Michael Harleft, Atilim (GiderosMobile), Patrick Meeham from Zipline(Moai), Simeon (Codea) and MYDevelopers who were tech reviewers on the same. I had spoken to Paul (ZeroBrane) and he had agreed, but I could not have the chance to work with him too on this project.

At the end of the day my aim is what the developer can get, in personal communications with @Atilim, there have been a lot of things discussed (which obviously I cannot discuss here) and it suggests that Gideros is going to be a spectacular framework, it is just that it takes time to get those things going. Still, my posts are soemtimes critical towards @Atilim despite knowing the bigger picture because sometimes it is required and the community needs assurance from the developers that things are happening.

Point of this post:
1. It is funny that only Gideros Forums would have such a thread and not censor it or remove it. Elsewhere this would already have been deleted by accident and accounts banned.
2. No framework is good or bad, it is how they can suit the clients needs or the users needs
3. Assurance about using a framework comes from actions that do not scare the user, like suspending accounts, etc.
4. I prefer Lua and provide Lua based solutions to my clients based on their requirements. So for me the framework that can offer the things my client requires is the framework to use for that project. However a major project was marred by CoronaLab's decision to suspend my account mid-way.
5. I also conduct training and workshops, I choose the framework that would work best with minimal resource requirements. Sometimes off-line complation or testing is important

Mells · June 2013

(@OZApps aren't you notifying the wrong user? -> david instead of davidrangel?)

OZApps · June 2013

@Mells, I did mean David as in @DavidRangel in this conversation, yes you are right semantically it is the wrong user, but I think @DavidRangel has subscribed to this thread so would be informed of it anyways.

Mells · June 2013

@OZApps ah, I didn't know it was possible to subscribe to a thread and get notified (probably the star at the top?), so I didn't mean to play with the semantics, but just so you are sure david gets a mail. Anyway

OZApps · June 2013

since no one is bashing any framework I am sure there is nothing that prevents David from responding. The original post started with a concern of stability/reliability of a service. People test, try and settle with a technology and framework (accepting the advantages and the inherent disadvantages) but if they are then forced to change for whatever reason or if it shuts down, stops development it is a significant issue and the time and resources taken to start with another framework is a bit steep. So, it would entail him responding to the concerns, covering it up would not solve a problem. CoronaCloud did not work, they shut it down, end of story, no conspiracy theories there. However, the only way for anyone to respond to anything is by creating an account and if they shut down the accounts like they did in the past (an account with 6 months remaining) and recently, then they are giving a message of unreliability and instability. I had to move the client away using other technologies than Corona, if they could shut down a subscriber account of one of the earliest consumer, what else are they capable of doing? A sequel to a popular Zombie game that was made using Corona was then made using native technologies since that incident and the client moved away from using this technology. There are more real case scenarios but am I suggesting that it is bad? No I am just saying that instability caused with such actions make it difficult to work with a technology in the long run. Do not have anonymous accounts if it is so critical, have the users validate and then if they do something against your policy, warn them and if they repeat, take the appropriate action. ... it goes on, but then it is their can of worms to deal with, not mine.

Mells · June 2013

@OZApps it seems that you have a lot to say on that topic and you got professional and personal issues with them in the past, but I don't understand why you are writing "me"

I was just trying to help, so you can be sure he sees your answer (which is not the case if he did not subscribe to the discussion and you have no visibility whether he did or not).

In fact I don't care much about the topic. Whoever does whatever he wants, I don't care. They lost my trust and business a long time ago, so whatever they do... answer or not, I don't care. If I had to look away from Gideros, that certainly wouldn't be in Corona's direction but that's just personal.
Despite what I said, I do believe that healthy competition is a good thing.

Ok, I'm out of the discussion.

OZApps · June 2013

@mells, sorry about that, fixed that

davidrangel · June 2013

@OzApps - I'll respond out of courtesy since I don't want it to seem like I just ignored your responses. But I honestly have a hard time following what you are bringing up. I know you had a beef with a person at Corona in the past. As mentioned before to @gorkem, these people are no longer with the company. I'll leave it at that.

I also get the sense that you are sometimes a bit of a conspiracy theorist. I'll just tell you that I *guarantee* that we do not close accounts arbitrarily, or anything along those lines. That's the truth. Just keep in mind that when a business is dealing with thousands of developers/accounts/etc, misunderstandings will happen. But I guess that by definition you will not believe me.

We indeed have had customers leave Corona in the past. There is no company anywhere that has never lost any customers. Luckily we have gained many more. And we are doing our best to keep that going. The whole Corona Cloud thing is a misstep, for sure. But our core business is strong and getting stronger.

Good luck to everyone here, and my apologies for the off topic discussion to Gideros.

As Mells said, I'm out of the discussion.

john26 · June 2013

@davidrangel, are you seriously claiming not to know what happened to @OZApps at Corona? Personally I think the way he was treated makes the "guarantee" you mention seem a little hollow...

davidrangel · June 2013

@john26 - I did not say that.

I said that I know he had an issue with someone at Corona over a year ago. That person is no longer with Corona. My guarantee is about our current business practices and anything I have control over.

OZApps · June 2013

@davidrangel, I would not like to drag the dead horse here, but if you are referring to either a fruit that features in the Mario Games or the person that shares the name with the Guitarist Santana then we are referring to different people. The problem was the inciter of that issue, the outlawed clown.

I do understand that the topic of discussion was Corona Cloud but we got offtrack as it involved a repeat incident of shutting down accounts. Totally unacceptable policing behaviour in the western world by any means.

I can see your style involves a bit of name calling; "conspiracy theorist", really?? Do you really want to discuss the brass tacks of what Corona (then called Ansca) did? It is easy to pin it all on Carlos as he is no longer there, but was it really him? I will leave this topic here.

I have not actually had a formal / public or even personal apology from Ansca/CoronaLabs on that *misunderstanding* it was more so justification and a warning, my point was you cannot treat your customers like that, specially not if you are running a corporate/company.

moopf · June 2013

Sometimes there's a bit of a bunker mentality when this forum discusses Corona. I'm not sure it reflects well on the community, or the confidence in Gideros, when it's used to have a public bashing of another system in such a way - it kind of feels like lashing out because it's a threat.

To be honest the way this thread has gone is quite disappointing, staring with @gorkem's post which, whilst reflecting on the short comings of Corona saying one thing and doing another, seems to neglect the fact that Gideros has been guilty of that in recent months as well.

And @OZApps, I really don't know why you feel the need to air your problems with Corona here in such a way. It feels a little tasteless to be honest - take it up with them personally or on their forums.

Mells · June 2013

I kind of agree with you @moopf. Let this discussion disappear.

OZApps · June 2013

take it up with them personally or on their forums.

That is exactly what I am suggesting is the issue, they do not hear the problems, they simply ban accounts autocratically. Anyways... I guess the shows over... it can start to only get distasteful.

gorkem · June 2013

To be honest the way this thread has gone is quite disappointing, staring with @gorkem's post which, whilst reflecting on the short comings of Corona saying one thing and doing another, seems to neglect the fact that Gideros has been guilty of that in recent months as well.

I commented on two things:

- I do not find it feasible to go for a cloud. Make some simple math and you'll see - and my thoughts prove me right. I didn't claim "Corona said one thing and do another". I said "they created a service and closed it very soon".
- I mentioned their previous two staff wanted to blur the water in Gideros and Gamesalad forums, which I never can accept.

If you want to be happy as a grumpy person, yes Gideros has some shortcomings - this will make your day I hope :-)

Unknown · June 2013

What email are you guys talking about? I only got one email from David and I had to email him directly to ask, and got the following back…

From: David Rangel
To: David Ramano
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: GameMinion etc ?

David,

Thanks for the message and I appreciate your concern. And I will never give anyone the runaround - I've always tried to be very straight up and will be so now. But I will appreciate your discretion as clearly it is not something we have announced, nor is there necessarily a need to do so quite yet.

Quite simply, we fired them. The execution was not there over the last several months. And when you are running a startup and you see that things are not working out, you have to make hard decisions. Especially in this case because we did not want the Corona Cloud effort, which is complementary to Corona but still a "side experiment" of sorts, to jeopardize or interfere with our core (and much more important) business, which is Corona SDK.

Now - let me be clear: this has *nothing* to do with the situation with Carlos and other staff. The reason they left is not dissimilar to this one, but that is a whole other story.

In terms of our core Corona SDK team, the current team is much more productive than the company has ever been. And I think that this is shown by the progress we have made over the last few months. This is not BS - we really are putting more and better stuff out there than we ever have.

And yes, this issue with the Cloud guys is very unfortunate. Believe me when I tell you that it is not what we wanted and it has been a BIG distraction for me (and also Walter) in the last couple of months. But that is why we took the decision we did.

So that's the story. Not sure what you were expecting, but this is the truth.

Thanks for being a long time Corona user.

David

Mells · June 2013

@david_ramano
Oh wow David remind me not to send you private informations by email.
I feel this is being too transparent this time, maybe it´s just me?
Not cool for Corona (whatever they do on their side) and the people named in the email.

moopf · June 2013

This thread just becomes more bizarre the longer it goes on. Somebody from Gideros please close it - @atilim, @ar2rsawseen - this really shouldn't be given any further air on these forums. Keeping it open gives the impression that you're OK with Corona getting a good kicking in this way in my opinion, which doesn't sit well.

Edited: Was asked to remove last two sentences.

atilim · June 2013

I agree and I'm closing the thread. I also want to remind that, everyone can edit their posts/comments and remove any parts inside.

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