No Pain, No Gain! [Devlog]

keszegh

hgy29 said:

oleg said:

For 3d there are only 2 programs: UE4 and Unity all the rest is crap

Well Gideros suits my needs for 3D so far (I am working on my second 3D game with gideros). If I ever need something gideros can’t do, I’ll add it to gideros anyway

that's the spirit

oleg

hgy29 said:

oleg said:

For 3d there are only 2 programs: UE4 and Unity all the rest is crap

Well Gideros suits my needs for 3D so far (I am working on my second 3D game with gideros). If I ever need something gideros can’t do, I’ll add it to gideros anyway

We talk about different things
If you want to build a career in 3d gameplay - you need to learn either UE4 or Unity

If you have enough 3D gideros capabilities - good
But if you have ambitious plans for 3d you should not waste your time learning godot for 3d, but it is better to use the best existing engines in the field.

keszegh

@oleg, godot might be an interesting contender in the near future. see where blender started and how it is taken seriously nowadays in the 3d industry.

oleg

keszegh said:

@oleg, godot might be an interesting contender in the near future. see where blender started and how it is taken seriously nowadays in the 3d industry.

3D model made in a blender can be easily transferred to maya or to another 3D editor, and the game written on a gadot you do not transfer to unity, so it is not a correct comparison.

keszegh

@oleg, it's quite offtopic, but in blender they also do full animations, etc. i don't think people choose blender because they want to switch to another software when the modeling is done.

in any case saying that godot is useless because most people use unity would be the same as saying that gideros is useless because most people use whatever other 2d engine. i personally hope that godot will become a good alternative to unity.

oleg

keszegh said:

@oleg, it's quite offtopic, but in blender they also do full animations, etc. i don't think people choose blender because they want to switch to another software when the modeling is done.

I will give you a simple example - you are a 3d artist made a model in a blender and brought an animator - and the animator will not be able to open it because the animator works in maya ...

And the animator doesn't care what you think about the blender, maya is the best animation program and the animator will not study the blender for you, so you will not be able to generate files in the blender format but in a compatible format with maya

oleg

I modeling a little in 3d, here are my works:
https://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/1360041
https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/military/rocketry/old-cannon-mortar

I modeling in 3d coat , maya, mudbox programs -and i will never switch to blender -because it's worse than them

Apollo14

oleg said:

Just don't go to the site cgpeers.com

Too late!!

you may have a look at godot for 3D. I believe you will feel at home regarding 3D. For 2D gideros is better imho.

oh no you don't understand the nature of addiction, I'm not in ue4 for sane practical purposes

One question: will you find a job at a large gaming company if you study GODOT instead of UE4?

Btw with UE4 you also won't find a job, there're very few job openings (hundred times less than unity) and requirements are extremely high, UE4 is one of the most sophisticated software on the planet, and besides that you have to be really good C++ specialist.

If you want gamedev job, the only choice is unity.
But imo gamedev itself is a bad choice for job. There're hundreds times more jobs in backend web-development (node.js, etc), salaries are higher, and it's much easier to become backend monkeycoder than, for example, UE4 C++ programmer capable to work on AAA projects.
And that unity job you get most likely won't be "exciting" (you know what types of games are made with unity).

(it's just personal opinion, I may be wrong)

oleg

@Apollo14 "Btw with UE4 you also won't find a job, there're very few job openings (hundred times less than unity) and requirements are extremely high, UE4 is one of the most sophisticated software on the planet, and besides that you have to be really good C++ specialist.
"
UE4 vacancies are a lot on television.(For beginners)

In games it all depends on the genre of games you want to make. If You Want To Make Casuals - Learn Unity

antix

So, if you want to be a successful 3D indie dev you use Unity and if you want to break into the AAA industry you need general skills because EA and other such companies wouldn't touch Unity.. ever!

Pretty much all learning is good so having some knowledge of Unity, UE4, and Blender is going to be beneficial because you never know where your career might take you, so having a lot of general know-how about games design in general can only be beneficial.

oleg

antix said:

Pretty much all learning is good

Psychologists have found that this is not true

People who are good at chess do not become smarter in other areas.

Most successful people who work for large companies, say something like this: "Learn only the skills you need to work now, because the skills you do not use will be forgotten and you will waste your time"

MoKaLux

Let's agree to disagree!

Sacha Baron Cohen in The Dictator.

Apollo14

I 90% agree with @antix and 70% with @oleg
Working with 3d made me much more confident in 2d also (though it may sound illogical at first)

People who are good at chess do not become smarter in other areas

But game engines belong to one area.
Though I agree that focusing on one project is best.
If I had better control over the mind, I'd release my 2d game already and started creating 2-3 more 2d games.

oleg

Apollo14 said:

But game engines belong to one area.
Though I agree that focusing on one project is best.
If I had better control over the mind, I'd release my 2d game already and started creating 2-3 more 2d games.

Chess and checkers also belong to the same field, but scientific data says that - knowledge of the game of chess, will not help you in the game of checkers.

Scientists took many pairs of twins, then one twin was taught to play chess and the other was not taught, and then tested the skills of twins in other disciplines

Knowing different engines is good, but knowing one engine won't give you the benefits of knowing another.

And there is a great danger of being burned out (losing motivation) by learning everything without focusing on one

SinisterSoft

Gideros 3D worked for me in RetroStar - 60hz even on the slowest of devices.



Even works fine in a browser!
https://deluxepixel.com/retrostar

oleg

SinisterSoft said:

Gideros 3D worked for me in RetroStar - 60hz even on the slowest of devices.

Write me when you make on gideros - minecraft

Apollo14

oleg said:

SinisterSoft said:

Gideros 3D worked for me in RetroStar - 60hz even on the slowest of devices.

Write me when you make on gideros - minecraft

Actually minecraft was made with very basic java framework.

oleg

Apollo14 said:

oleg said:

SinisterSoft said:

Gideros 3D worked for me in RetroStar - 60hz even on the slowest of devices.

Write me when you make on gideros - minecraft

Actually minecraft was made with very basic java framework.

I know this, and that's why i think the example of minecraft on gideros will draw attention to gideros

SinisterSoft

A gideros 'minecraft' type game example would be great - no idea on how to do it though - not looked at minecraft source code. Is it available?

oleg

SinisterSoft said:

A gideros 'minecraft' type game example would be great - no idea on how to do it though - not looked at minecraft source code. Is it available?

Minecraft is based on open source Infiniminer game

Infiniminer
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/20/proto-minecraft-abandoned-due-to-epic-error/

I once made my version of minecraft on UNity.
The network has a bunch of code examples of how to do it at UNity

We do not need to do the generation of the world as a minecraft

We need to make a voxel constructor from cubes so that it can create a game of the genre of skyblock

oleg

https://github.com/gibbed/Infiniminer

Apollo14

Chapter 2.2: Probable monkey code reusability

Good news is I stopped f*cking around with 3D and UE4 (as I told in previous chapter it's all sophisticated as spacecraft (or brain surgery or whatever), I need to focus on what I already can do - 2D stuff).

Bad news is it didn't make me monkey-code my 2D project any faster (certainly I do some progress everyday, but with soo many distractions).

And I've got "genius" idea to recreate the same game but with completely different assets and art style later on. Because it takes soo much time... hell, I want some reusability... (yes, I know I can re-use code libraries, but I don't want no freaking libraries, I want it all at once)

P. s. Here's what game development does to people:

MoKaLux

welcome back to gideros. Yes it's very hard to find THE ENGINE but fear not we have found it! I tried a lot of them (the latest being g...t). They all have their flaws: for example when you export and apk the size can be 100Mb for a hello world project!!! No engines come close to gideros when exporting to android. And there are countless other examples. I have read on a forum a guy who was happy to quit UE4.

My next step will be to explore gideros 3D stuff and share my progress. Have fun and success @Apollo14 and you all of course!

oleg

MoKaLux said:

My next step will be to explore gideros 3D stuff and share my progress. Have fun and success @Apollo14 and you all of course!

One artist from a large game studio gave advice:

-No need to learn everything, just do a real project and learn just what you need right now.

-Go to googleplay and look at a game that is 500th place, make the same game - make it better than what is in the store.

MoKaLux

I agree with you @oleg . It is just out of curiosity. The more you know gideros the more ideas come to mind!

Apollo14

Chapter 3.1: Freaking bread crumps (from under the table!)

Oh, time for a little confession

My life situation got a little ugly, I lost one small source of income, so last month I've been surviving on like $1-2 a day. And my small ex-soviet country isn't actually cheap; food costs are the same like in US/EU; electronics and clothes are even more expensive than in US/EU. It's not that I'm a loser or a bum who doesn't want to get a real job. It's just that in my country there's not much choice, majority of population works for $3-5/day, so it's definitely not a good idea to get real job. Going to other countries without education&savings&decent citizenship would lead to a little milder slavery, but still slavery. Besides, old parents have to be taken care of too.

So I purchase cheap raw wheat, sprout it, grind with walnuts from neighborhood trees and bake some bread. Top class nutrition (and cheap too, yahoo!)

I'm not sure if it's possible for lonely me to finish my planned bodybuilding game within next month or two. So I've decided to try my luck in trash apps: pollute Google Play with few small apps (maybe 5-10 apps based on one template). I know one buddy who recently made a dozen or two crappy apps (like "police siren", "dolphin sounds", etc.) and he gets few hundred bucks a month from it (not much, but it definitely can help to become able to eat something else besides top class elite nutrition vegan hippie sprouted wheat). My logic is: I didn't make it to the feast, but at least I'll try to pick up the crumbs under the table.

I was surprised to know that trash apps aren't finally dead in 2019. And obviously I'm kinda 7 years late with that trash business plan, should've done it in 2012 maybe. But in 2012 I was doing search engine optimization (SEO), was dumb enough to not care much about future, wasn't smart enough to see where trends are going (spoiler: for SEO-specialists they were going to shit). Then I went to India, did some soul searching, volunteering, helping rural people. Then came back and realized that SEO actually went to shitter. Then I did some volunteering in my country, wasn't sure what to do in life, then my savings ran out and I became one of those guys I used to help (karma!!). Then I decided to create mobile games (I don't even remember why). Started from scratch, for my brain it took ~1.5 years to adopt (probably it would be faster if my brain was dozen years younger).

My template for trash apps is half-ready, I hope to spend not more than 2 weeks working with them. Then publish them. Then continue bodybuilding project.

Previous info may sound a little sad but I'm happy with my life, I've seen worse things anyways, so no big deal. I have no other choice but to stay positive and continue working. No pain - no gain.

oleg

You won't make money on junk apps!
If your friend makes money he just finds a niche that is not occupied.

PS/ Move with your parents to Ukraine, we have a good climate and cheap food.

MoKaLux

@Apollo14 we are all with you!
Do whatever makes money, which is also one of the reason we make apps/games.
Gideros is a little family but it's warm inside

Apollo14

Chapter 3.2: Powerful Competitor

Rich multimillion-dollar company recently published idle gym game. And of course it's professionally crafted with big advertising budget, they gained 1mil+ downloads during first week.
(I must not post link here, because links help app ranking, and I shouldn't help their app ranking)

When I saw it, my reaction was: Fooook...........! I was supposed to release my damn project by this time!!


And here I am monkey-coding stupid interfaces for trash apps.
Well. My bad. No excuses.

* * *

After my recent discovery that coding interfaces in Gideros is an unexpectedly ugly process, I'll have to change my plan for bodybuilding game (since the game is all about interfaces).


1) Re-analyze once again all the upcoming interfaces in my game, see if it's worth monkey-coding them from scratch (most likely not)

2) Test 'Layout' class intensively (or maybe new upcoming layout system if it will be there by that time)

There's 90% probability that 'Layout' will be enough, but if it's not:
a) try another engine with better workflow for developing interfaces
b) take a break for a week or two from annoying interfaces monkey-coding, try to create 3D prototype in Unreal Engine for my another game idea, then see how it goes (it may or may not go well, cause 3D sometimes gets too sophisticated, heavy obstacles are possible)

You won't make money on junk apps!

P. S. oh I wasn't talking about money, I was talking about breadcrumbs (from under the table!).

oleg

Apollo14 said:

Rich multimillion-dollar company recently published idle gym game. And of course it's professionally crafted with big advertising budget, they gained 1mil+ downloads during first week.
(I must not post link here, because links help app ranking, and I shouldn't help their app ranking)

When I saw it, my reaction was: Fooook...........! I was supposed to release my damn project by this time!!

On the contrary, you can advertise your game at the expense of a competitor.
Just use the same keywords as your competitor. And next to search results, you'll always be in second place -


Which is very useful for the number of downloads, and further it will depend on the quality of your application