Making Gideros free and open source

lessmsios

You could also have "official build" subscriptions ($) for those that don't want the hassle of building the code themselves since you know your code best it would be easier for you to test and verify the code enhancements of others as the overall code base expands.

jdbc

http://readwrite.com/2014/07/07/open-source-software-pros-cons

OZApps

I guess like Red Hat which offers Fedora for free also has paid services for those wanting more. I believe that a compiled version of the latest update would also be made available for those that would want a compiled solution.

I guess that there would be a service option available from @ar2rsawseen or @atilim where even though Gideros would be Open Source, people can get a paid service option.

Either @ar2rsawseen or @atilim want to confirm that?

atilim

Hi all,

We're working hard to finish structuring the code so that contributions will be more healthy. My estimation about committing to github is about 2 weeks. Please wait a little bit more. And we'll continue to provide binaries after open sourcing.

Currently, there isn't any plans about paid services. But we allow (and encourage) other people to provide paid/free services and plugins afterwards.

Harrison

This makes me a little sad for the dev team.. but this event just might cause gideros to be very popular, right? Mixed feelings about this, but I just wanted to thank the dev team for all their hard work. So.. Thanks a bunch for making Gideros!

mydoghasworms

I have been investigating Gideros for a while and am busy writing my first game with it., and only now do I see this announcement.
While on the one hand it is exciting to see that the product will be open source, I don't share the optimism of some that this means that the fixes etc. will be quicker - looking at Moai makes me very unsure of that.
I am sorry it hasn't worked out as a commercial enterprise; I actually liked the model and would have been willing to pay if the apps I publish took off.
Anyway, I wish you guys all the best with your future endeavours, and I hope you will be able to maintain Gideros going forward - I really like the API and I would hate to see Gideros go the way of Moai.

Mells

The project will survive if the people involved have the willingness and ability to make it profitable.
But on the other hand, making it open source and free makes it now risk-free for anyone happy with the current set of features to use it "forever". Free.
And I haven't clearly stated it in my previous message but I really appreciate that decision.
The team could just have closed the doors without doing it.

It deserves more attention and appreciation.

whidbey

appreciate for your works..

OZApps

Appreciate a link to the GitHub too if possible.

Having the code does not mean anything so need to check if it would help in any way to expand and use it for specific projects or would it be easier to rely on new binary builds.

mydoghasworms

The project will survive if the people involved have the willingness and ability to make it profitable.
But on the other hand, making it open source and free makes it now risk-free for anyone happy with the current set of features to use it "forever". Free.
And I haven't clearly stated it in my previous message but I really appreciate that decision.
The team could just have closed the doors without doing it.

It deserves more attention and appreciation.

You are absolutely right. I did not consider that in my comment. They could have indeed closed the doors without opening the source, and I am in fact very grateful for their decision.
I do worry, however, that I will not see another binary package offered for future releases (again I am thinking of Moai) and that users like myself, who may not have the necessary skillset, will not be able to build their own binaries.
Gideros is great because it provides just the right mix of price and API for an entry-level individual, as an alternative to something like Corona, which for an individual is just slightly too much and too expensive. I really hope it will be maintained going forward.
But yes, again, thank you very much for the decision to open source. Without that, we would have all been left in the lurch!

john26

Yes, I'm grateful too for choosing to go open source. It was an honorable decision entirely in keeping with the fairness and decency I have long associated with Gideros.

boriskey

I AM very grateful for having Gideros and everything that developers and creators of it did and I am very sad it did not work out like they wanted. I really think it is best thing out there - simple yet powerful. Like Mells said it is great that the project went open source instead of shutting down totally so it is the hand of community now to make it successful. Unfortunately not all of us have the time and skills though and I wish someone would pick this up. I would be happy to pay $300-500 a year for commercial version of it and more if it would support Windows 8 mobile.

I have a question regarding Gideros Labs and premium add-ons which I actually was goign to use - Can I still purchase them? If yes, how? is someone going to support them in future meaning bug fixes and changes in API from vendors?

jdbc

Now Gideros is going to be open source, this kind of lectures are mandatory:

http://www.fysx.org/2014/03/09/to-port-my-game-i-ported-a-game-engine-to-android-part-ii/

Some LuaJIT info are interesting.

ar2rsawseen

@boriskey Honestly don't know completely yet
Lots of people suggested keeping labs paid, but most of the stuff there most probably will be open sourced.
Most probably some of the items, as AdsInterface and GameInterface etc, which would need constant support would remain as paid ones, as licenses for a year, if lots of folks would be interested in that, can't tell anything about the pricing, yet or a distribution way currently

boriskey

@ar2rsawseen do you think I can still go ahead and pay to get access to them? I do not mind doing this but just wanted to make sure that if I pay now, I get support later

Disciple

I've just seen this message and, like most say, it makes me sad to know that the model wasn't profitable for you. I think a developer who works hard and is commited to a project like you are should have its fair retribution for it. Therefore I thank you for all your hard work and for letting Gideros live as an open source project.

I have finished one game and just began working on my second project on Gideros, and I love the platform. I really hope it continues to soar.

@ar2rsawseen I don't know anything about C/C++ but I'd be glad to contribute in bug testing or whatever I could.

Premal

WOW !! Things change so fast. Here i was busy finishing couple of projects already on gideros and I hear this.. I am still trying to figure out if this is good news or not ! I am personally heavily invested in Gideros and am bit worried. My 2c on how we can make it a success
1. support windows phone - like it or not WP is growing and supporting it will invite developers on the edge
2. Provide a complete end to end export - I believe the current export is incomplete and still requires me to understand xCode ( which i don't want to ! ) ( aka cordova )
3. Provide a online build system which developers can use so that they don't require their own build systems / CI and so on.. ( aka phonegap )
4. I think rest of features 3d/4d/etc are just fluff and can be added later !

-Premal

OZApps

@Premal,
There are a lot of discussions on what should be done. In reference to your points,

1. Agreed - Windows Phone support is definitely a requirement as much as Windows Desktop support

2. At least the Xcode project exported is much better than the Android project, which requires tweaking.

3. God Forbid NO!! While a lot of developers want an easy workflow, many are not comfortable with online builds and workflows as you mentioned given that many chose Gideros coming from the Beer SDK for exactly this reason.

4. Using a term such as Fluff would be quite harsh because there are many developers that might be interested in that.

The requirements and expectations differ from developer to developer and it is difficult to have the features that everyone wants. In the future it will be solely on the community as to what they will support (if they do) it will be based entirely on their discretion.

Premal

@OZApps
regarding fluff -- Well my intention wasn't to be harsh but to I feel that ability to make clean command line exports without further intervention is really important. smalls things that i get bugged on are
1. having to replace launch images (ios)
2. having to add icon images (ios/android)
3. Doing modifications in code to integrate a plugin like lets say Ads ( ios/android )

The fact that there are listed steps which dont change make them obvious choice for automation/build. Infact gdrexport is something i want to enhance once its opensource !

Hopefully once things are open source the core guys can work 3d/4d & community can help in rest of areas..

-Premal

Sergeyka

May be you should to do next?:

Stop subscribe for 149$/year etc.

1) Free license with logo.
2) One pay 49$(?) = indie lifetime license + to adding a intresting features. People may to buy the Gideros for support developers.
3) One pay 399$(?) = sources of Gideros + email support + night builds

Send it's information to all registered users of forum.

---------------
Or to do a big discount how it is was with Messiah Studio -
http://www.3dstreaming.com/2011/02/14/pmg-messiah-studio-5-10-deal-of-2011/

It was hype + great advertisement

eezing

@Premal

1. I agree

2. The developer would simply lose too much control if this were the case. I do agree navigating Xcode and Android projects are quite the task if unfamiliar territory.

3. Again, loss of control for the developer and a big pain for Gideros team with regards to implementation and maintenance. As @OZApps mentioned, local builds is a HUGE plus for Gideros. You have to pay many $$$ in upgrades in order to have this ability in Corona and Unity.

4. I think the most important features to implement in an SDK such as Gideros are the tools themselves... tools in the end that'll offer my users the best possible experience.

PaulH

Add me to the list of developers sad to see Gideros end as a for-profit product, but hopeful for the future. I've published a couple games with it and have the next one mostly designed. Considering the quality and power of Gideros and the timely support when issues were found, I think the pricing was very reasonable.

I'll do what I can to help when Gideros becomes open source. I've developed native iOS and Android apps, but most of my experience is in developing in C/C++ for Windows. I especially hope Windows and Mac desktop exports can still be added.

PaulH

boriskey

I believe if Gideros will support windows mobile it will give an huge edge to it and will attract a lot new developers and will bring new life to the project. I know it is not easy and even Corona with all their money and huge userbase keeps promising that for a long time, but think about it and look around. I personally noticed a lot of people lately with windows phones while I see iphones dropping fast in count - at least I can judge by number of people I see in our office. So the market is very promising.

I still will be willing to pay personally for premium addons (like inapp one or ads one) and support - I am not sure I feel good that now everything will be in hand of someone who may not have time to help me when I need help.

Mells

That's called Parkinson's Law of Triviality.

The reactor would be finding ways to make Gideros profitable in its current state (before adding anything else) by doing proper market research. Otherwise, the development will stop here (how to reward/compensate/thank those who will invest their time and how to expect quality work from them if they do it on their spare time?).

That would be unrealistic to expect anyone to step in and invest his time. That'd be a labor of love and it doesn't last long.

Mells

hi @atilim,

can you provide a small update please? How close are we to your expectations?
thank you

Jeff_Kanazi

What happens with Gideros Labs access in view of this process? Currently even with a recently renewed license I cannot access the code there (it used to work). Is this being dropped completely? It has been very helpful in the past while I could access it?

chipster123

@gorkem, @atilim , @ar2rsawseen - Thank you for all your efforts.

boriskey

What happens with Gideros Labs access in view of this process? Currently even with a recently renewed license I cannot access the code there (it used to work). Is this being dropped completely? It has been very helpful in the past while I could access it?

I really need to hear an answer on this too - I was about to pay for the license just to get to the labs. Are you saying it does not let you download files for labs anymore?

Disciple

@Jeff_Kanazi and @boriskey as far as I understood from what @ar2rsawseen has said the plug-ins will continue running as the author decides, may it be free or through a payment/subscription.

Jeff_Kanazi

Currently I do not have access to folders like "In App Billing Interface", "Gaming Interface" etc. even thought I had recently renewed my Indie license and I was wondering if that was part of some other changes.